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Two and Two Make Four

  • August 14, 2020
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The New Discourses Podcast with James Lindsay, Episode 10

We have to talk about 2+2. Unfortunately. Most unfortunately. This is because what looks like a simple and profoundly stupid Twitter fight must be understood in the full context in which it is playing out. This context is, in fact, the most important and least reported part of the origin story of the Great 2+2 War of 2020, and few realize that this ridiculous discourse didn’t come out of a vacuum. It arose in reaction to something James Lindsay posted on Twitter, as has been reported, but more specifically it is the product of a Washington State Ethnic Studies program director, Shraddha Shirude, jumping into that fray with a request to make 2+2=5 “into a true statement” in order to defend her Ethnic Studies education program in that state (and beyond). This “ethnomathematics” program has deep ties into the academic literature within the critical study of mathematics education and is now currently being implemented in Washington and may spread to California and New York soon, and from there, beyond. It is also part of a deliberate attempt to destabilize our ability to identify and name objective truths so that the activists pushing these agendas cannot be criticized and so they can advance their agendas unimpeded. Join James Lindsay on the New Discourses podcast for a deep, sometimes emotional dive into the real story of the 2+2 discourse.


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Previous episodes of this podcast are available here.

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15 comments
  1. Peter Hartmann says:
    January 25, 2022 at 8:28 pm

    If 2+ 2= 5 to someone is valid, do you suppose they would agree to my putting two $1 bills in their left hand and two $1 bills in their right hand (i.e., 2 plus 2 dollars), and they give me a $5 bill in return since 2+ 2 = 5? If so, I would like to run this experiment with them 100 times to test consistency. Your thoughts?

    Reply
    1. LR says:
      August 15, 2022 at 12:07 am

      Well, if 2+2 = 5, why can’t it equal 6,7,8,11, whatever.

      I would ask that nutty, so called “ethnic studies” teacher if they would like to submit their formula to home builders, ship builders, the satellite, spaceship builders, etc, and see if it works.

      She might as well be a flat earther.

      Reply
  2. Bopsamba says:
    January 25, 2022 at 9:22 am

    I get it now , toilits , electricity computors, cars , planes , modern medicine , etc are western inventions , they are expresions of white supremacy , stop using these things right now to stop racism

    Reply
  3. Chelsea Cantilli says:
    October 1, 2020 at 6:40 am

    Three true answers:

    2+2 = 4 in base systems 5 and above.

    2+2 = 10 in base 4

    2+2 = 11 in base 3

    Source: GlaDOS

    Reply
    1. Laura Nott says:
      December 17, 2022 at 12:24 pm

      Don’t confuse people with facts. 😉

      Reply
  4. Hudson H Luce says:
    August 21, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    Essentially, artificially bolstering “self-esteem” in minority youth sets them up for failure in later life. Blacks aren’t genetically disfavored as to intelligence, cultural factors here come into play, and the very great majority are allowed to coast through without ever having been held to any standard thus never having been compelled to actually learn anything, or to know the effort and persistence required to learn things – the “subtle racism of diminished expectations”…

    Reply
  5. K says:
    August 19, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    There’s always subtraction of finite resources. The radicals may make some headway but it’s always going to be happening in tandem with the ability to re-state “I had four english muffins, I ate two, and I’m trying to gauge whether I should go shop today or tomorrow.” Everyone runs those little complementary expressions in their heads: had four, took away two, have two. Have two, used to have four. 4-2=2, 2+2 =4. Maybe this will ameliorate the damage a bit? I’m not saying they won’t make a whole program out of it, but it’s going to coexist with the constant everyday ways of reproving it. Had four quarters, spent two in the laundry machine, do I have enough left for a soda? It’s still a problem because the _1984_ characters could reprove things in those small ways too, and then be chilled and scared into submission. They knew in their heart but it was a social climate of corroborating the wrong answers.

    Reply
  6. KK says:
    August 19, 2020 at 8:04 pm

    Mathematically rigorous systems in which 2+2=5: Analogies with non-Euclidean geometry
    https://www.academia.edu/43900105/Mathematically_rigorous_systems_in_which_2_2_5_Analogies_with_non_Euclidean_geometry

    Reply
    1. Harry Storm says:
      August 22, 2020 at 1:45 pm

      Philosophical bafflegab i.e. bullsh*t.

      Reply
    2. Clive Scott says:
      September 10, 2020 at 4:26 pm

      This simply relabelling the numbers 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7… to 1,0,3,2,5,4,7,6… in order to be able to write 2+2=7 (which means 3+3=6) where different symbols have be used to represent the numbers 3 and 6. We know 3+3=6 whether those numbers are written in Arabic, Chinese, Tibetan, or Roman numerals. The statement is independent of the glyphs used. The analogy with non-Euclidean geometry is just an attempt to clothe this slight-of-hand in a cloak of respectability.

      Reply
  7. cal says:
    August 17, 2020 at 10:16 am

    Reason Magazine, a Libertarian publication, reported on racist math and Shirude, earlier in the year. Math racism is silly.

    I’d like to have Shirude explain just how comfortable she’d be driving across a long bride designed by someone who never learned cal. because it was developed by Newton and Leibniz were both white. Leibniz was a Germana and probably a pre-nazi or something like that too.

    Yes, I know their work was built on previous theory from Greeks and others.

    Reply
    1. Karl Straub says:
      August 1, 2023 at 1:27 pm

      Anyone driving across “a long bride” ought to be concerned with physics and biology, before calculus even enters into it.

      Reply
  8. Kobus van Zyl says:
    August 15, 2020 at 11:44 pm

    Lovely clear explanation of what has been happening in this debate and why it’s important. Thank you for the great work you’re doing, Jams Lindsay!

    Reply
  9. Lucius Severus Pertinax says:
    August 14, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    It is very Simple- Let Shraddha Shirude Demonstrate conditions under which 2 + 2 , in fact, equals 5.

    The name of the game is Put Up or Shut Up, sweetheart!

    Reply
    1. Ken says:
      August 15, 2020 at 10:39 am

      Exactly! Perhaps Laplace faced similar resistance when he first suggested his now famous transforms. Put up or shut up!

      Reply

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